Style and Substance

[gnomi]

...or, at least, a poll about style guides. :-)

[Poll #852907]

Comments

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

I'm a firm believer in style guides and resource materials being as specific in function, and yet inclusive, as possible. So, for example, a house style guide should not assume that the reader has access to any other style guides (because they might not) unless it specifically references sections of a specific other guide (or guides) which it expects the reader to have access to. Never assume knowledge, as most people are dumb. :)

[tygerseye.livejournal.com]

I don't see a need to reprint anything already in the accepted bookstore-available guide unless it's something the press wants to stress. However, exceptions to, or press-specific elaborations on what are in that style guide are essential.

Oh, and as far as suggestions, the Sir/sir thing is a good one. And guidelines about loopy things like omnicient POV and changing POV's within a story. :D

[kuroshii.livejournal.com]

agreed. i'm all for having One Book to get everything from. simplity and all that, but also a touch of laziness.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

But, see, if the style guide of the press is, for example, Chicago Manual of Style with house style tweaks, I'm not going to reproduce all of Chicago for the editorial staff. So how much of Chicago should I reproduce?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

One book is great, yeah. But... no book can be all-inclusive. I'm not going to reproduce all of the Chicago Manual of Style just so that I can tell people that we violate their rule on possessives of names that end with s.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

From a house style I guide I would want: (this is a wishlist)

The name of the published guide they prefer to work with
Any house specific fomatting (such as em dashes or two en dashes, smart quotes or not, section break markers etc)
Specific spelling issues (all right/alright) (this is a real wish, and not feasible, I think)

I would assume that things like possessives would be related directly to the prefered published style guide unless the house guide specifically states otherwise.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

OK, so highlight the big things (like the serial comma), but not worry about other stuff. I like that approach. And, yeah -- house style stuff is kind of the whole point of this project, as I see it.

This isn't really intended to be a writing reference as much as a style guide, so I'm not really sure how much I want to go into the topics of POV (because, well, that's something a writer should be aware of when writing). But I'll ponder it, definitely.

Oh! And speaking of the Sir/sir thing, are you and B going to be sending me a new version of 3 (for me to start poking at in January), or should I just go off the version I have from... uh... last February, I believe?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Heh. All of the things on your wishlist are on my "to include" list. The "these words are ones that people get tripped up on" list is vital, in my mind, because they're the ones that make me snarl the most. I mean, the formatting issues are important, but they don't make me snarl when I'm doing my read-without-pen-in-hand step. "Alright," however, does.

[kuroshii.livejournal.com]

true, true.

but looking at the deluxe transitive vampire or grammar for smart people, they certainly don't reproduce everything (from CMoS) and yet they're both pretty much stand-alone.

i'd say: describe everything that's Unique, and then just hit the major things and refer to CMoS for the lesser-used stuff that's the same. that way, most of the time folks can just use the one book.

[magid.livejournal.com]

List the bookstore-available style guide
Actually, depending on the size of the company, I'd think it would be provided by the company, rather than just "bookstore-available".

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Small press. People buy their own Elements of Style. :-)

[tygerseye.livejournal.com]

Uh... I guess we better give three another read. :D

*adds that to the to do list for next month*

[magid.livejournal.com]

If only it took shopping fu to get elements of style...

[lisafeld.livejournal.com]

Not sure what you mean by the bookstore style guide. Ours is our own, because 98% of it involves Hebrew or Yiddish transliterations which I doubt are consistently codified elsewhere. But one thing I think you forgot: house guides should have preferred reference notation as well.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I mean things like Chicago Manual of Style or Elements of Style, which can be acquired in a standard bookstore.

As for reference notation, since it's a fiction publisher that I'm developing the guide for, that's less relevant, but it's a good point for non-fiction publishers.

[lisafeld.livejournal.com]

Ah, got it. I should have realized that, but I've just been home sick for 5 or 6 days. Brain still isn't up to par.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yikes!

Feel better soon!

[violetcheetah.livejournal.com]

i would suggest, if this is possible, to include in particular the things that people often get "wrong" at your press. so, include relevant sections of chicago if you tend to notice, for example that people often write "wholly-owned subsidiary," and you want to be able to tell them why you keep punting their hyphens. also include anything on which you differ from chicago, maybe particularly saying "chicago says its 'the boss's wife,' but here at acme publishing, we say 'the boss' wife.'

[arfur]

A house style guide should highlight any variations in style that occur between media (eg, "format links as 'www.tsne.org' in print and HTML, but always as 'http://www.tsne.org/' in email")

[cellio]

I am generally opposed to repeating information, so for most things the house style guide should say "basline is $guide" and make sure copies of $guide are available. However, there are always a few things that ought to be emphasized, either because the organization considers them really reall important or because people have gotten it wrong in that organization. The key here is "highlight", not "duplicate in gory detail"; we tend to just include the bottom line and point to the more-detailed entry in the other guide.

Of course, the local guide must document all variations from the baseline guide, but I assume you're already doing that.

[lisafeld.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I hope I will...

[zsero.livejournal.com]

If it's basically Chicago except for A, B, and C, then I'd just say so. I'd publish the house guide as if it were an appendix to the Chicago guide, and tell people to read that first. That way there's no need to reproduce any of it.

If it's more complicated than that, then you need to reproduce as much of it as you want people to follow; e.g. you might put in a replacement for a whole chapter, in which case it has to include anything in that chapter that you do want to follow.