Ask Rabbi LJ -- Traveling over Shabbat Edition

[gnomi]

OK, so. Here's the deal. I'm off to a conference in Virginia Beach next weekend (Shabbat of 9 March, Parshat Ki Tisa, Shabbat Parah). And, well. I'm not going to be able to light candles, since I'll be in a hotel (and hotels tend to frown on open flames). Usually in this sort of situation, I ask someone in the same Shabbat-starting-time-zone to keep me in mind when they light. However, I don't know anyone in the area who will be lighting (licht bentchen is at 5:42 PM in VA Beach). So, do I ask someone lighting earlier (Boston is 5:26), or do I ask someone whose lighting is later but still within "my" 18 minutes (Silver Spring is 5:51)?

(Yes, I plan to ask my rav this question. I was just wondering if someone knows the answer so that I don't have to add "ask odd question at kiddush" to my to-do list.)

Comments

[llennhoff.livejournal.com]

Remember that you can light candles on Friday night from plug hamincha onward. 5:26 is well after plug hamincha in VA beach, so I don't see a problem there, except that I would guess you should take on Shabbat starting at 5:26 if that is when the person lights. Also that person should be careful not to light before VA beach plug hamincha (4:53PM). Maybe you should co-ordinate by phone? If they can let you know they are about to light, then you can take on Shabbat from that time forward.

Personally, I prefer in that situation to bench licht using electric lights. That way I can light candles where I am eating, or at least where I am sleeping. Bli neder, this evening I'll try and present sources to support this. My new job is much less tolerant of surfing during work hours than my previous one. Obviously if you prefer your custom you should continue to do it, I just thought I'd offer a different alternative.

Also, have you considered tea lights? I've used them successfully in hotels, although I don't recall if I asked permission to do so.

In any event I am not a posek and this is not a psak.

[magid.livejournal.com]

(a) I've had no problems lighting tea lights in hotels; I try to bring foil to put them on, though.

(b) I've also used lighting an electric light (that I'll then be taping on for Shabbat) instead of lighting physical candles, though I prefer not to.

I didn't realize that having someone in mind who isn't in the same place was an option!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize that having someone in mind who isn't in the same place was an option!

I'm not sure that it is; this is part of my problem.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Go for the tea lights. it was what I was about to suggest.

[angwantibo.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[angwantibo.livejournal.com]

Actually, I had a candle holder that tried the Shabbos my sister was moving into her new apartment in Chicago. This was back in her medical school days. I slept in a sleeping bag in her new place as the furniture wasn't there yet and put shabbos candles in what looked like metal candle holders. Well, they weren't metal. When the candles burned low, they burnt the candle holders and the apartment filled with smoke. I guess you could call it a cleansing ritual using smoke in the tradition of Native Americans? Anyway, this was not my intent, my sister was furious with me as we had to wash the walls and blinds of ashes. Since then I have been very careful what I use. Tea lights in a sink or on tin foil is best.

Good Shabbos!

[magid.livejournal.com]

Usually in this sort of situation, I ask someone in the same Shabbat-starting-time-zone to keep me in mind when they light.
To me, that's 'not in the same place' also, though in a different way. I'm more used to people in the same household or going to the same meal to light for one another, not people in other places in the metro area, for instance.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Ahh. See, this is what we started doing for conventions and the like when my Ima started going to conventions. Usually Abba lights and keeps us in mind. But with the added complication of being in a different city (and me not part of Abba and Ima's household anymore), it gets more complicated. I'd ask mabfan to light for me, but the timing is an issue.

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

I've often used those "in a jar" candles in hotel rooms, without any ill effects. I figure if I can keep them burning for 20+ hours at a time at home, (frequently forgetting to blow them out when I went to sleep, left for the store, etc) they're probably pretty non-hazardous for a hotel room. They don't drip wax, can't fall over, etc.

I don't know the whys and wherefores of the candle lighting religious-wise, but I would feel very comfortable with the idea of using one in a hotel room, as long as you didn't put it a) by the bed where a blanket/pillow could inadvertently get tossed on it or b) near piles of papers/clothing, etc.

If it's not disrespectful, the bathroom counters make a wonderful place, as they're well away from carpet/furniture/linens (other than towels, which are not too great of a danger of being piled on them), etc.

In related news, I've been /thrilled/ with the vanilla truffle candles that I got from walmart. They were $1, made by Candle-lite out of cincinnati, Ohio, and come in a small round heavy-glass "jar". One will burn for... well, most of two days... without getting hot enough to damage the surface below it. The scent is lovely (yummy) and they're cheap! And when they're done, I melt the remaining wax out and it makes a great holder for votive candles (which I'd otherwise have paid at least a dollar for on its own.)

Safe journey!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I get twitchy about open flames at hotels. Too many potential issues, including legal ones, for my comfort.

Alas, lighting in the bathroom isn't an option. We say a blessing over the candles, and we have a rule that it's not considered respectful to say blessings in the bathroom.

I like the scented candles sometimes. A number of years ago, we needed a candle that would burn for 2 days straight over the course of a Jewish holiday and I wasn't able to get one of the big votives (no one had them in stock that I could find; now I know where to aquire them, however). So I bought a couple of scented candles and lit the one that smelled of chocolate chip cookies. We craved cookies all through that holiday.

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

I think that perhaps blessing should be chocolate chip scented (and flavored, if you can swing that.)

I'm glad that you have community you can draw on, since the candle in the hotel thing isn't an option for you. :)

Are you guys going to be at Lunacon?

[saxikath]

I have a friend who LARPs who would light Shabbat candles in our cabin -- and this is a wooden cabin, so there are lots of potential dangers. Her solution is to use tea lights and light them in a foil bread pan, which she can then leave in the cabin with less worry.

(I'm not exactly sure of her level of observance, because she certainly carried things on Shabbat, but she did light candles.)

[magid.livejournal.com]

This can be made even more safe by putting some water in the pan, too.

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

Nomi, is it possible to say prayers and light the candles on the beach? We're right on the water, apparently, and I'll happily help you gather stones or whatnot to build a windguard as needed for the candle.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that would be a lovely idea. And since we have a break in the Friday schedule from 5-7, it looks like I'd have time to light on the beach and still join everyone for dinner.

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

Well, let's do that then. I'd be happy to join you in worship, if that's allowable and appropriate, or just be nearby. I think I'll be in dire need of a break from people, and I try to make a point of going outside at least once a day.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

It would be completely appropriate for you to join me. We traditionally gather folks around for candle lighting on Friday evening. Thank you!

I have a pair of tea lights that lives in my luggage, so that's set. I just have to remember to bring matches.

[oldblackbird.livejournal.com]

*grins*

L and I smoke - there'll be matches. ;)

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Coolness. Good to know.

I know a number of smokers who use lighters, and I consistently fail to be able to use a traditional small lighter without either (a) looking like an idiot or (b) almost setting assorted fingers on fire. So even though I knew there were smokers in our crowd, I didn't know if that meant a presence of matches or not.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I don't know if that will work halachically, since the reason you light candles is to bring light to where you will be eating or living. Since you'll be doing neither on the beach, that could be a problem.

This is why it's acceptable to bentch on electric lights - in fact, technically, you're supposed to have all the lights in the house that you leave on or on timers in mind when you light.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

My thought was balcony off room on beach. Balcony is part of living space, thus OK, as I see it.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Ah. Somehow, I got the impression you would be *at the beach*. Balcony would work.

[malkaesther.livejournal.com]

What a great idea.

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Personally, I use tea lights in glass tea light holders set on aluminum foil. These are all part of my "Shabbos kit". One piece of foil will last years.

However, if you don't want to do that - bring a timer for a room lamp and bentch on that. Yes, timers are also part of my Shabbos kit.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I'll be rooming with others, so I'm not going to bring timers because I don't want to inconvenience said others (and, since said others aren't Jewish, I shouldn't have a worry about lights, for the most part).

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Then bentching on the lights might work even better. You have no control as to when they go out - just as you do with candles.

[llennhoff.livejournal.com]

My shabbos kit has gotten to the point where it looks like I'm moving in. Some less than standard items:
Fleishich portable roaster oven
Shabbat Lamp
Continuous timers (can be set to on or off every 15 minutes)

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

I have my own issues with taking cooking equipment - I know some hotels frown upon it, and a friend of ours nearly started a fire with an electric blech twelve or so years ago. He did lose all his clothing.

[malkaesther.livejournal.com]

I do that also. I make sure that the tea lights are not near the windows (drapes/curtains) and that there is at least a foot of space around the candles with nothing on it.

[zsero.livejournal.com]

I have never had a problem with tea lights in a hotel room. Not only has nothing ever gone wrong, and no hotel has ever objected, but at LACon4 I realised on Friday afternoon that I had forgotten to bring one so I asked the hotel concierge desk and they gave me one without batting an eyelid.

I put them in glass holders, on the tray that holds the glasses. Or, if it happens to be a smoking room, in the ashtray.

I've had more problems with hotels over taping the door than over lighting candles (not that I've had much problem with taping the door).

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

I was going to offer to connect you to sdavido's cousins in Virginia, but it looks like you've found a better solution.

[autotruezone.livejournal.com]

You should go to R. Blumberg's shiur tonight. He's going to talk about that very subject. See the shul web site for more info.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Alas, since I'm already in New York, I will be unable to attend the shiur. However, I asked the sh'ailah at kiddush on Shabbat, so I know what I'm supposed to do.

Thanks for the tip, though.