Picking up an old thread about tenses

[gnomi]

A while ago, I was yammering here about lay and lie and the misuse thereof. At some point in the comment thread, someone said that the lyrics to Snow Patrol's Chasing Cars has a lay/lie error in the chorus ("If I lay here/If I just lay here/Would you lie with me and just forget the world?").

Because my brain is a very odd place, I've been pondering this on and off since. And I'm not convinced that there is a lay/lie error there, because none of the following are considered incorrect, at least in informal writing:

-- If I ate here, would you join me for dinner?
-- If I sat here, would you sit next to me?
-- If I lived here, I'd be home now.

Yes, an argument could be made that the verbs above should all be present, not past, tense, but I don't think that the past is out-and-out wrong.

So, there you have it. I'm going to stand up, at least somewhat, for the usage "If I lay here, would you lie with me?"

Comments

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

If I lived here, I'd be home now.

Grammar aside, I love this line. I use it continually, along with "No matter where you go, there you are."

Because I am strange.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

There's a set of luxury condos along Storrow Drive in Boston that has a prominent sign that faces Storrow that says "If You Lived Here, You'd Be Home Now." I've known that sign since I was an itsy thing, so when I was coming up with "if" sentences, that one popped into my brain.

[42itous.livejournal.com]

Firesign Theater did a bit in which someone is driving along on a highway and you can hear the text of the streetsigns in the background as he drives past them. One sign says, "Shadow Valley Condoms -- if you lived here, you'd be home by now."

[tober.livejournal.com]

I believe that the sign to which you refer is located at Charles River Park. Also, I think that in this case "if you lived here..." is better than "if you live here..." because it implies a continuing action, whereas I'm not sure that that same argument holds for "if I lay here" because that is not a continuing behavior in the way that living (in a place) is, quite. It's a minor quibble, though.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

It is, indeed.

Charles River Park has been there as long as I can recall.

[tanaise.livejournal.com]

Given the fact that Gordon Lightbody tends towards word play in his songs, I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't mean (correctly or incorrectly) 'lie on the bed with me" but "Tell falsehoods with me." Particularly since he starts with such falsehoods: "We'll do it all/Everything/On our own//We don't need/Anything/Or anyone"

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I could see that if the lyric were "If I lie here..." But since it's "lay," which is not the past of "lie" meaning "tell falsehoods," I'm not sure that's a possible interpretation for the "I" of the lyric. The "would you lie with me," sure. I'd buy that.

[42itous.livejournal.com]

I was just fretting about a similar situation this morning. Dave Matthews Band has a song which I like very much, "One Sweet World," in which the chorus goes, "So let us sleep outside tonight/ Lay down in our mother's arms..." and every time I hear it, I am annoyed by the incorrect verb tense.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Your other examples seem like they're just subjunctive, so I don't see why they would be incorrect, either formally or informally.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I read the lyric as subjunctive, also.

Some people seem to feel that in formal writing the subjunctive sounds better with the present tense. Why, I'm not sure.

[zsero.livejournal.com]

In all these examples (including the song), the past tense is used as shorthand for the subjunctive; i.e. "if I lay" means "if I were to lie", "if you lived here" means "if you were to live here", etc. Perfectly acceptable, though not very formal.