Thinking out loud, the Internet version...

[gnomi]

So next Shabbat (27 October), I'm giving the d'var Torah (brief talk on the portion of the Torah read in synagogue that week) at seudah shlishit (literally, "the third meal" -- the third ritual meal of Shabbat (counting Friday dinner as 1, Saturday lunch as 2)) at Kadimah (our shul). I'm most likely going to speak on one verse: Beraishit (Genesis) 18:25

It would be sacrilege even to ascribe such an act to You - to kill the innocent with the guilty, letting the righteous and the wicked fare alike. It would be sacrilege to ascribe this to You! Shall the whole world's Judge not act justly?'

Translation from Navigating the Bible

What does "justice" mean in Judaism? Is the translation "justice" proper for the Hebrew word "משׁפט"? Is the concept of "justice" that Avraham is using here different from the justice of the nations amongst whom Avraham lived, and if so, how? What *was* Avraham asking?

Comments

[tygerseye.livejournal.com]

I can't answer that question, but I just thought I'd mention that the concept of "justice" and "fairness" and law in general as it related to Judaism and to modern life is one of Beth's father's favorite topics. You guys could probably talk for hours about this one. ;-)

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

Dude, if you host this, I'm so coming, just to watch.

It'd be like Wimbledon, with words.

(Well, and probably without Beth's dad in a white tennis skirt, but now we're just being silly)

[tygerseye.livejournal.com]

I'm treated to this kind of discussion nearly every Friday night at dinner... last week was about giving money, how and why one should give to one's community (any community, religious or otherwise), why even a tiny amount is not negligible and why the town we live in - which is quite wealthy overall - isn't more philanthropic or generous.

Believe me, I know these two could go on for hours. Heh.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

Can I announce your d'var Torah on my LJ and invite folks to attend?

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

I tend to think of mishpat as referring to the letter of the law rather than to an abstract sense of justice, for which I think tzedek.

[cellio]

Same here. Mishpat is statute; tzedakah is closer to "righteousness" and has more of a moral component. (Just to be clear, I'm talking about my impressions; I have nothing scholarly to back me up.)

[donovanstitch.livejournal.com]

This distinction is correct. "Mishpat" has the same Hebrew root as the word for "judgment" and denotes the strict application of the rule of law, whereas "tzedek" denotes righteousness and morality. The former meaning underlies Avraham's question to God -- how can You, the judge of the entire world, fail to apply the law by inflicting punishment on innocents?