A Language Ponderance: Shoot(ing) (an) E-mail

[gnomi]

autotruezone asked me to ponder the phrase "shoot [him/her/them] [an] e-mail." Now, first, I have to say that I *always* hyphenate e-mail. Also, I still twitch a little bit at "an e-mail," since I'd never say "I sent him a mail" if I dropped a paper letter in the mailbox, but I think I'm losing that one. I continue to fight that one, even though I know it's likely futile. But the verb, "to shoot," is what interested autotruezone and what I've been thinking most about in this construct.

In my experience, one "shoots" a one- or two-line e-mail message (something along the line of "Where's that review you promised me?" or "Brunch is at 11:30; please set four extra places because the Cohens are bringing the Bagels and the Bialis." For longer items, I use "send," and I don't think I'm in the minority on that (I honestly can't think of any other verb to use in formal communication).

So now I open it to you all -- do you "shoot" people e-mail? Do you differentiate the verb for longer vs. shorter messages?

Comments

[cbpotts.livejournal.com]

Slightly off topic because I'm annoying:

Is the shoot derived from shoot from a gun, like faster than a speeding bullet fast, or does this have something to do with the pneumatic tubes people used to have in office buildings (which is where, in my annoying research quirk, the first place I've seen this usage) (Wow, I should not be allowed to play with the language today!) Which came first, the bullet or the inter-office memo?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'd say from a gun, metaphorically -- something that moves quickly, as a bullet does.

[jadecat.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I would write an e-mail the same as I would write a letter. Which is where I see the change in e-mail vs. mail. Mail is a collective, e-mail can be, but isn't always. I'm not sure how that came up, but it seems to be the case. I hadn't thought of this particular perspective before.

And yes- shooting someone an e-mail would mean a very short message. Longer 'letter' types would be 'sent'.

I like the language posts. :)

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I know I'm in the minority in not liking "an e-mail." And I recognize it's most likely a losing battle, but I'm still sticking up for "send him e-mail," "shoot him e-mail."

I'm glad you like the language posts; they figure prominently around here.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

*sits here*

E-mail is to letter as mail is to postal service.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

But then where does Internet fit in? I'd say e-mail is to Internet as letter is to postal service.

::ponders more::

::watches smoke come out of ears::

[byrne.livejournal.com]

Sure, but then e-mail is still to letter, and 'an' works.

:D

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

See, I've pondered more, and I think I misstated above. E-mail is to Internet as mail is to postal service. So I'd say message --> e-mail --> Internet, just as I'd say letter --> mail --> postal service.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

I don't use message. Unless it's instant message, but I do not in any form equate that with anything having to do with the post.

Hmmm.

Essentially, I think I disagree with you on this one. LOL

[thespisgeoff.livejournal.com]

See, but e-mail is both a singular and collective noun; so the actual analogy is: e-mail (singular) is to e-mail (collective) as letter is to mail.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

Perhaps that's it.

Nomi, what do *you* see as the electronic equivalent to 'letter', if e-mail is 'message'?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

The breakdown is as follows, in my mind:

Electronic
message
e-mail
Internet

Paper
letter
mail
postal service

So, I'd send a message via e-mail. I'd send a letter via the mail. The etymology of the "e-" in "e-mail" was for "electronic," to differentiate it from conventional, that is, paper, mail. This is analogous to how the phrase "electronic typewriter" was used to differentiate it from "typewriter" (meaning what we now have to call "manual typewriter," since "typewriter" is no longer assumed to mean "manual typewriter." There's a bunch of these retronyms (http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-ret1.htm) that have been coined as technology obscures the original referents).

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's mostly where I stand, except that it bothers me that the singular and the collective are the same word (leading to severe ambiguity), so I differentiate by using "message" for the singular and "e-mail" for the collective.

[thespisgeoff.livejournal.com]

Do you have the same issue with other nouns like this? Say, "fish," for instance...which is also, like email, a noun that can be used as a verb with no change...

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I don't have the same problem with "fish," though I couldn't put my finger on why it doesn't bother me the way "an e-mail" does. It might have to do with how long it's been in general use. "Fish" is an old word, dating back -- in some form or other -- to Old English.

[gingicat]

Yes, exactly.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

The more I think about this the more I think I totally don't get what you mean.

Message?

A letter and an e-mail are the same thing. I don't understand the logic of them *not* being the same. Can you explain it to me?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

A (hard-copy) letter is the same as an electronic message. E-mail is like "mail," as in "you have mail." I sent him a message by e-mail. I sent him a letter by mail.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

..... Oh.

Um. I have written about fourteen comments and deleted them all. I disagree.

I do think you're going to lose this war, mostly because of two thing: e-mail (god I hate email) has become almost a tangible thing, like letters. And because "message' has FAR too many definitions. The medium is the message, the underlying message, the message was written. The stumble for ME comes from that word.

'Message' is not used that way in my life. It's for very short things -- instant messages, phone messages. E-mails are letters, written and constructed that way and sent electronically.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I fully acknowledge that I'm likely to lose this one. However, as with "who" vs. "whom," I'm going to fight for as long as I can.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

ohhh I've got your back on the 'who' vs. 'whom' battle.

We need a score card.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I think the reason who/whom is dying is that people don't know about cases in English (or, worse, are taught that English doesn't *have* cases).

[byrne.livejournal.com]

*blink*

*blinkblinkblink*

But.... Object. Modifiers. Case. Um. Oh boy. I'll be over here, with my story.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I *know*! It makes no sense to me that people think English is caseless.

::sporks bad teachers of English::

[byrne.livejournal.com]

Also, I'm not nearly as invested in this as it looks LOL!!

*goes back to the editing*

*blush*

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I didn't figure you were; I figured this was just sheer curiosity at how the idiolect works.

I enjoy this kind of thing, but you know that. :-)

As for editing, I think I'm going to start tackling "Merge" in the next little bit, to get a jump on it.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

hooooooooo okay!

*speeds up and makes room*

:D

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Do you need me to hold off? It just depends on how much time you want to poke at it once I'm done with it.

[byrne.livejournal.com]

Oh gosh, no! Work away. The sooner you do, the sooner I do, and I like lots of room, yo.

:D

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

It's a plan, then. I'll get on it in the next short bit.

[ephemera.livejournal.com]

(there is no word that is to email as letter is to mail, is there?)

I don't shoot emails, but if I did, I'd be more likely to shoot an email _off_ to him/her/them, than shoot him/her/them an email, if that makes any sense.

[kmelion.livejournal.com]

I agree... I tend to 'fire an e-mail off'.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I've been known to use "fire off" as well. I'm not sure I've ever thought about what context I use one over the other.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I'd say message is to e-mail as letter is to mail.

I like "shoot off e-mail," and I've been known to use it that way instead of just "shoot e-mail," though I default to the without-"off" version.

[dpolicar]

I don't think I've ever described myself as "shooting" someone any sort of message. It's possible that I've described others as doing so, if so I almost undoubtedly meant to mock them.

That said... my intuition is that "shooting" an email refers to time spent, rather than size of message. For example, on a conference call, someone might say "Oh, you don't have the 3-MB presentation? I'll shoot that right over to you."

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I like "fire off" more than "shoot," but "shoot" seems to be common.

Though "send" always works for me.

[docorion.livejournal.com]

Just to add to the confusion, I tend to 'drop him/her an email' (and I don't hyphenate it, although I really am not getting involved in that particular religious war). Although I agree that 'shooting' an email would indicate a brief message, rather than a long missive intended to explain why I hadn't sent a letter.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I think it's a brevity thing. Or a speed thing. Now that bit rate is so high, even the longer messages can be said to be "shot," but I try to restrict its use to short messages.

And, yeah, I've been known to use "drop" just as easily as "shoot" or "fire off." I didn't really think about it until autotruezone brought it to my attention.

[dianora2.livejournal.com]

So now I open it to you all -- do you "shoot" people e-mail? Do you differentiate the verb for longer vs. shorter messages?

Yes; yes, usually.

[gingicat]

I think I unconsciously use "shoot" for short missives as well.

Also, I've always used "an e-mail" as short for "an e-mail letter." Otherwise it's a collective noun.

[lisafeld.livejournal.com]

My best friend shoots me emails; I think (like proactive and other such words) it's more common in the corporate sphere. I hadn't really thought about it, but now I realize I don't tend to use the word, precisely because I don't generally slam out a quick two-line piece of info.

Also, is there an online site with multiple choice gram/usage questions to quiz and strengthen your skills? I'm trying to think of resources I can point people to; it used to be that you could just tell people to read more and pick up usage from how words and punctuation are used properly by others, but there's so much shoddy editing these days, that's no longer the best suggestion...

[lensman.livejournal.com]

I'd never say "I sent him a mail" I agree with the idea here but I think for a different reason. I think "mail" is the generic form, and refers to multiple, the singular case is "a message" or if being really verbose "a mail message". E-mail (and I agree about hyphenating), is also generic, but relies on the adjective to show case.

Regarding "to shoot", I generally use that only when referring to sending multiple messages in rapid succession. (Shorter messages tend to lend themselves to that, but I don't think of it specifically that way)

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

When you "shoot" someone an "e-mail" it's because the "e-mail" gets put into one of those pneumatic capsules and is "shot" along the "tubes" that make up the "Internet."

[cellio]

I don't tend to shoot messages, but if I did it would mean I was sending short ones speedily.

I find "an email" (or "an e-mail") horribly wrong and illogical, and I am sad that the press uses it routinely. (The press didn't start it, but where the press goes the masses follow, when it comes to usage.) I use the same argument you do -- I wouldn't send someone "a mail", so why does it make sense to send "an email"? We're doomed, though; we've lost this one. But I persist in the usage I can control, anyway.

[red-tanya.livejournal.com]

I use it for urgency (time-constrained situations), not brevity.