Wow...

[gnomi]

This is an amazing document.

I am not saying that I agree with what it says 100%. But it goes much farther than I thought the Orthodox community (any part of the Orthodox community) would ever go publicly.

Thanks to 530nm330hz for the link.

Comments

[stormsdotter.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing. I also do not agree completely with this, but I don't agree completely with many Jewish ideas. I do think there is a lot of good in Judaism.

I am warmed and cheered that they encourage respect, tolerance and support as much as they can.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

It's a start, but I'd hoped for more than this:

We do not here address what synagogues should do about accepting members
who are openly practicing homosexuals and/or living with a same-sex partner.

[sethg]

I think that sentence needs to be read in the context of what follows:

Each synagogue together with its rabbi must establish its own standard with
regard to membership for open violators of halakha. Those standards should be applied fairly and objectively.

My reading of that paragraph (which, granted, may be tinged by my own political bias) is “if you don’t raise an eyebrow at having prominent members of your shul publically violate Shabbat and kashrut, you have no excuse for refusing aliyot to a member who is openly gay”.

[taffimai.livejournal.com]

I don't think that automatically assuming that living with a partner equals an open violation of halakha is fair. Not unless that person is openly sharing a lot information about their sex life.

[sethg]

Good point.

[eroticjames.livejournal.com]

In many ways it's far more open minded than a good deal of Christian sects.

[sdelmonte]

Good to see so many prominent rabbis signing on. Wish mine were one of them, but I think that this is not going to go over well in this area.

I endorse it completely, though.

[doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com]

The rabbi who drafted it was my high school Gemara teacher. Among the signers are my junior high school Gemara teachers, my high school Jewish History teacher, the rabbi of my parents' shul, and my brother.

[cathshaffer.livejournal.com]

This is pretty much identical to the Roman Catholic position on homosexuality, and the Roman Catholic church is widely despised as being the most homophobic possible institution. So I am not sure many people who are not orthodox jews (or Catholics) will be impressed with this document. Just sayin.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Not that I can see. It makes it clear gay men can be rabbis, and refutes don't ask, don't tell.

[cathshaffer.livejournal.com]

Are you Catholic? Have you checked the Vatican web site? Don't ask don't tell is US military policy, not Catholic church.

[doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com]

While I agree with what many are saying, that this isn't enough, I also think that unless a person grew up Orthodox it's kind of hard to understand how HUGE a step this is. I recognized a lot of names on that list and I am immeasurably proud of all of them.

[asciikitty.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's required that a person grow up Orthodox to recognize how big a step this is.

There were tears in my eyes from reading it. It's a huge step.

[doeeyedbunny.livejournal.com]

I didn't mean to imply that it was required. I am so used to having to explain what it was like growing up Orthodox to people who see it as something so unbelievably foreign. I forget sometimes that there are people who know what Orthodox Judaism is like from second hand or third hand experience and don't just see it as something alien or antiquated. Thank you for reminding me of that :-)

I totally burst into tears when I saw my brother's name on that list.

[asciikitty.livejournal.com]

Hey, no problem. :) I forget a lot of the time that people would see it as something alien of antiquated. Perspective is...

I can only imagine what that was like for you.

[jadelennox]

I grew up Orthodox and I saw it as pretty mixed (huge step, but not far enough) but then, the congregation I grew up in is probably a lot more conservative now than it was then. Inasmuch as back then it had the blithely ignoring things it didn't have to notice, and now it has to notice them. (Also there was a rabbi shift, which didn't help.)

[batyatoon]

This is a huge step.

Please God people listen.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's a huge step. I still think it isn't valid according to other aspects of halakha, and they need to go further in specific ways (to be exact, assuming that people who acknowledge being gay have nevertheless committed no violation of the law, unless two witnesses have seen them do the deed in person) in order to fit their own official views of what is right.

I'm glad as a practical matter that they've moved forward. I am annoyed as a matter of philosophy that they're still not following their own rules.

[arib.livejournal.com]

I'm very pleasantly surprised that the signatories include people I respect from a leadership standpoint, as well as a few personal friends, and a bunch of people I went to high school with.

Neat.

[laurens10.livejournal.com]

I agree with the comments that if you are not familiar with the Orthodox community, you would not understand what a big step this is.

On the other hand, some of the wording of the document rubbed me the wrong way. "Homosexual or same sex attraction." I think the next step would be to include people in the queer umbrella communities enough to find wording that resonates with their experience. "Same sex attraction" feels very pathological. If you do a Google search, the first site for the phrase "same sex attraction" is a "conversion" therapy site. Homosexual has similar issues.

I think there are clear reasons why they did not use the word "gay". "Gay" represents the other half of the coin, where the person is accepted by a community, considered a whole person, not someone struggling with a handicap. To me, it embodies health where the other words do not. I think the word choice raises an interesting question of what tolerance means and whether tolerance is enough.

[rivkaesque.livejournal.com]

This is huge step. Growing up, my community didn't even acknowledge that it was possible to be attracted to the same gender. I spent eight years wondering what was wrong with me before finding out in college that there were other people attracted to their own gender.

I just wish I dared send this to the people in my life who rant at me about my 'same-sex attraction' being unhealthy or an aveirah. If I sent this to my sister, I honestly think she would cut me off completely - and I'd probably have to listen to my father explain why he still is permitted to try to get me to get involved with an Orthodox man 'to help me overcome this yetzer harah'.

Perhaps my nieces and nephews will grow up with less intoleance and ignorance than I - and will have some sort of support structure in place if and when they realize that those odd feelings they get around members of their own gender are attraction, despite never feeling them around members of the opposite gender.

Typos sorry.