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[gnomi]

Welcome to a new feature here in Nomi-ville: periodic peeks into the AskNomi mailbox.


Why would a mikvah shopping site have black panty-liners for sale?

OK, this veers into the realm of traditional Jewish observances of Family Purity, so please bear with me here.

When a woman menstruates, she enters a status known as niddah. She remains in niddah until she goes to the mikvah, the ritual bath. From the day that her menstrual period ends, the woman counts 7 "clean" days, days on which she inspects closely for any trace of menstrual blood, as any trace would invalidate her "clean" days and require her to start the 7-day count again. After seven "clean" days, the woman goes to the mikvah and is no longer niddah. Custom is to wear underwear with a white crotch panel so that any trace of discharge can be seen and analyzed to see if it invalidates her count.

So, where do the black panty-liners come in? Well, during the other 2 weeks of the month (the ones that aren't her clean week nor her menstrual week), she doesn't want to see any trace of discharge, as it could make her niddah if the rabbi determines that the spot is, in fact, blood. And, as tradition has passed to us today, the rule is that if you can't see it and determine its color, it doesn't count. Therefore, a tradition has arisen for women to wear underwear with dark-colored crotch panels to prevent them from being able to see any spots. And if a woman does not own any underwear that fits the bill, she can use a dark-colored panty-liner that serves the same purpose - obscuring any stains that could be blood.

ETA: This site has a discussion of the leniencies that the rabbis use in terms of identifying spots to prevent women from being continually niddah.


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Comments

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

the rule is that if you can't see it and determine its color, it doesn't count. Therefore, a tradition has arisen for women to wear underwear with dark-colored crotch panels to prevent them from being able to see any spots.

This appeals to me on so many levels because it suggests a certain humor about the situation: "I don't want to know; here's a completely kosher way of ensuring I don't. I know what I'm doing but, hey, G-d and I, we understand each other." This is one of the reasons I love Judaism: its practical and completely human approach.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I've always appreciated the practical approach to life that Judaism has. Yes, there are restrictions, but they've got the space to make life livable within the restrictions. One of my favorite is the whole "bugs aren't kosher but locusts are" thing - if there's no food because the locusts have eaten it all, we're allowed to eat the locusts.

*CHOMP* *ahem*

And in many cases the rabbis' interpretations of the rules go out of their way to find the leniency rather than the stricture. I know a rabbi who says he wishes that people would ask him more questions than trying to interpret the laws on their own, because most people - in his experience - are more likely to "rule" more strictly than they'd have to in most cases.

[scarlettina.livejournal.com]

Of course, this prompts a related question that makes me a little queasy. Are there actually women who show their stained undies to a rabbi for a ruling? I don't even know that I'd feel comfortable showing them to my husband (if I had one). That just seems...I dunno, a little extreme. After all, as women and as ourselves, we generally have a better handle on the workings of our bodies and can recognize and distinguish one thing from another.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for every community everywhere, but I was taught that you bring it to the rabbi's wife (or the mikvah lady) and explain the issue to her. She then brings it, as your "shaliach" (emissary), to the rabbi and explains the situation. This way, you are spared the embarrassment of bringing your underwear to the rabbi personally.

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

Dark-colored crotch panels, good gracious. I'm familiar with the principles but I never heard of *that* detail!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yup. And many people who do bride classes will actually suggest that the bride invest in dark underwear for just this reason.

[gingicat]

Of course, it's not just an "I don't want to know" issue for fun reasons; some women ovulate within that seven days, or have irregular spotting, and therefore need to have more flexibility if they want to get pregnant.

Interestingly, for all that I'm Jewish, I'd never heard of the black underwear/pantyliner thing till I read Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's a way to allow for the realities of life within the strictures of halacha.

And, really, a lot of these things aren't well known unless one has taken bride classes. It's the women who teach the classes who pass along the tips and tricks.

[thespian.livejournal.com]

of course....that also keeps you from knowing about any irregular leakage that might be warning sign...

is 'if I can't see it it's not there' actually a valid way of remaining non-niddah? I mean, G knows, and if G is aware of it, won't it be worse to explain "Yeah, I know, I was niddah, but it was such a pain...."

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

is 'if I can't see it it's not there' actually a valid way of remaining non-niddah?

During the "clean" week, bedikah - "checking" - is done each of the seven days using a clean white cloth, to look for any possible remaining menstrual discharge. One cannot avoid one's niddah status completely if one has regular menstrual periods. However, as tigerbright mentioned, it does protect a woman against the possibility of having no time during the month during which she could have intimate contact (which, depending on one's interpretation can be everything from simple touching to intercourse) with her husband.

damn it

[lucretia-borgia.livejournal.com]

Another good business plan shot. I speculated with S. several years ago whether there'd be a market for such a thing. Though frankly I was thinking pastels, maybe a nice poppy print.

So where is this site? I'm kind of curious what manufacturer they used, since my back-of-the-napkin (ahem) research didn't turn up a good bet.

Re: damn it

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Heh. I have no clue where the site is. If the original question-asker wishes to post the site, I'd appreciate it.

And, yeah - until I'd heard about it with this question, I had no clue anyone out there was selling black panty-liners. Great business idea. Wish I'd thought of it. :-)

[mamadeb.livejournal.com]

Huh. My locak mikveh sells travel kits (manicure stuff and such),testing cloths, calenders and even pregnancy tests, and it gives away toothbrushes and razors. It does *not* sell the pantyliners (and Rabbi Forst in his Laws of Niddah recommends that a woman not wear black underwear - just dark and solid.) What I would like, actually, is *white* pantyliners, ones without plastic backing or absorbent coverings, to use during the white days. Because white underwear? Doesn't stay white no matter how well you wash it. And I keep two separate drawers, too. Just a piece of soft cloth, like a bedikah or something knit, that you can attach to your undies.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

As I mentioned to lucretia_borgia, this was the first I'd heard of the phenomenon. And you're right about it being nice if they sold the equivalent in white. Because it would just make life that much simpler. They used to sell plain white panty-liners (with adhesive backing but without the cover or the plastic backing), but I haven't seen them in years (since before I got married, actually).

[emrinalexander.livejournal.com]

Um...well.

I never thought about my underwear in quite that way before.

This hasn't come up in any of my studies yet *G*. So, I'm converting Conservative - is this something I should/need to ask about? Or is this more of an Orthodox thing, or am I out in left field with the rest of the gentiles on this?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

It's done in the more traditional parts of the Conservative movement. It'll depend on what your rabbi says, I think.

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

You do get some interesting ones!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Indeedles. But, y'know, that's what makes it so much fun.

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

Never a dull moment, eh? :-)

[pressburger.livejournal.com]

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<lj-user = "vettecat"> said it's your anniversary. So I assume it is, since she is usually up on these things. Happy anniversary.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Indeed it is. And thank you!