Because now it's stuck in my head

[gnomi]

So, in passing, oldblackbird mentioned syllabication of "wild" and "fire," and now the question is stuck in my brain. Therefore, a poll:

[Poll #469378]

Comments

[oldblackbird.livejournal.com]

*cackle*

Geek.

;-)

[seborn.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that fire has two syllables around here, but since I also accept it as sounding like the opposite of near...

[sethg]

"Fire" and "wild" both have two mora.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yup. And proud of it, too!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Yeah -- I think it has 2 syllables.

To you, do "Aaron" and "Erin" sound the same?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

OK, I'll buy that.

(shouldn't that be "'fire' and 'wild' both have two morot"?)

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

I tend to give each of them two syllables in pronunciation, but one in scansion. That is, I've written at least one poem where I tried to scan "while" as two syllables (why-ull), and it just sounded awful no matter how I rewrote the line.

[cellio]

They both have two, but they're not "real" syllables. I think of them as being 1.5 -- there is a change in the mouth as for a syllable change, but the transition is more subtle than normal and the whole thing is shorter than a normal two-syllable word. I don't know if this makes sense.

And now, let me plant another problem for you to ponder. :-)

"Fire" raises an interesting question for me. I pronounce it "FI-er". I also pronounce "iron" as "I-ern". In neither case is that "r" in the pronunciation in the correct place with respect to the vowel sounds. I first became aware of the oddity with "iron" when I heard my Canadian husband (well, he was just a friend then) say "I-ron".

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Fascinating! I'm intrigued by the scansion vs. pronunciation difference. Something for me to ponder.

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

They both have two, but they're not "real" syllables. I think of them as being 1.5 -- there is a change in the mouth as for a syllable change, but the transition is more subtle than normal and the whole thing is shorter than a normal two-syllable word. I don't know if this makes sense.

Yeah, that makes sense. It's as if (if I'm understanding you correctly) there was a schwa in there. Or a shva.

"Fire" raises an interesting question for me. I pronounce it "FI-er". I also pronounce "iron" as "I-ern". In neither case is that "r" in the pronunciation in the correct place with respect to the vowel sounds. I first became aware of the oddity with "iron" when I heard my Canadian husband (well, he was just a friend then) say "I-ron".

Do you say "I-ern-ing" or "I-ron-ing"?

As for "fire," English, in my mind, is on the fence in general -- for example, we spell the noun "fire" but the adjective "fiery."

[seborn.livejournal.com]

It completely depends on who's saying them.
I pronounce them the same, except when I'm concentrating on it.
I can also tell the difference between the three m*ry words when you say them, but you'll have to catch me by surprise to see how I pronounce them.

[magid.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I think that's why I said 1 syllable in the poll, then realized that when I say them, they're both 2. Part of why I don't read poetry much, I think (I read too fast, the sounds don't come through unless I read aloud), and why I had such a terrible time in grade school when we did syllabification.

[fernwithy.livejournal.com]

I sat there saying them in my head, and while there's sort of a slurred second syllable, I don't know if it's quite a syllable. "Fire" is more clearly two syllables--if I were writing a poem, I'd rhyme it with "dryer." "Wild," on the other hand... not quite so clear.

[cellio]

Do you say "I-ern-ing" or "I-ron-ing"?

The former naturally; the latter sometimes if I'm trying to correct this learned pronunciation glitch.

[beowabbit]

What chanaleh said. Phonetically, to the extent that "syllable" is a meaningful concept, I'd say they have two syllables as I say them. However, English treats them as if they have one syllable. (Part of the effect of that, or cause, maybe, is that you can't make a clean syllable division in them.)

The tricky bit is the liquids /r/ and /l/, which English insists are consonants but which here (1) become awfully vocalic themselves, and (2) create a vocalic glide after the /i/ of the dipthong /Ai/ which English phonology pretends isn't there.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

I count "fire", "tire", and "wild" as having one and a half syllables. . .

Another interesting question, to my mind, is the word "camera." Which, supposedly, has three syllables, but you could have fooled me.

[bitty.livejournal.com]

Note to self: don't write any haiku involving "wild" or "fire".

[bitty.livejournal.com]

and then came ra, who blasted away...

oh wait, that's not the two syllables you were looking for.

[angwantibo.livejournal.com]

Yes they do. Not identical (2nd syllable is slightly different). Believe me, it has caused problems for us.

On hearing my son's name, many people assume that I have a girl. There is the alternate religious pronunciation that we've shied away from that really differentiates the pronunciation.

It also leads to confusion when I get together with a high school friend that has a daughter named Erin.

[angwantibo.livejournal.com]

This discussion has spread like wildfire. :)