Drive-By Language Poll

[gnomi]

[Poll #1235751]

*Note: I always thought it was "he'll furnish the spot," but online lyrics databases seem to be split between "he'll furnish the spot" and "his firm is the spot," so I went with the one that popped up more.

Comments

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

Proof ;)

Basically, If the "had" wasn't there, "proved" would fit :D

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I also wanted to take out the "had," and finally didn't choose an answer to that question because I wouldn't say the sentence with it.

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

:D

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, but (just as an example; it's widespread) Dictionary.com says:

Usage note Either proved or proven is standard as the past participle of prove: Events have proved (or proven) him wrong. As a modifier, proven is by far the more common: a proven fact.

It's by no means a cut-and-dried subject. Which is why I'm soliciting popular opinion.

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

The wonders of the English language :D

[sorek.livejournal.com]

I agree with the thread owner.

"Events have proven him wrong"
"Events proved him wrong"

These sentences both work for me, although I feel there are subtle differences.

"Events had proven him wrong"
"Events had proved him wrong"

Both make my brain reboot, although the more I say "Events had proven him wrong" the less painful it sounds.

"Events had proved him wrong" still sounds wrong no matter how many times I sat it.

"Events proved him wrong" sounds fine.

I'm not even going to begin to try explain how. Ok, never mind I'll try. :)

It's something to do with the timing of when "he" learns he's wrong.

"Events have proven him wrong" is one person talking to another person about a third person. e.g.
"John swore the plan was foolproof!" Bob said.
"Ah yes, but events have proven him wrong, haven't they?" Alice replied.

"Events proved him wrong" sounds third person omniscient to me e.g.
John walked into the room, confident the plan was foolproof. Events proved him wrong, however.

"Events had proven him wrong" sounds third person limited to me. e.g.
John had thought the plan was foolproof. Events had proven him wrong. The only thing he could do now was try to salvage the situation.

::sighs::

I should stick to writing code.

Reality Intrudes

[caryabend.livejournal.com]

third person omniscient

It's second-person ignorant that really bugs me.

Re: Reality Intrudes

[sorek.livejournal.com]

You must be having a bad day.

Not because you insulted me, but because you only bothered to take a sentence to do it. If you're going to bother to flame somebody, at least give them a good paragraph of material.

If what I said was so wrong as to upset you, why not at least *try* to correct me rather than do a drive-by flaming?

This isn't USENET or a web forum. This is a mutual friends blog, not even your own.

Anyway, I hope your day improves.

[jesshartley.livejournal.com]

it proved or it had proven...

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

See, but that's not a hard-and-fast rule. Garner (Dictionary of Modern American Usage, first edition, p. 534) says:

Proved is the traditionally preferred past participle of prove. But proven often ill-advisedly appears -- e.g.: "Yet it was another 'Game of the Century,' matching teams that had proven [read proved] thus far to be unbeatable." Mark Blaudschun, "There's Always Time for a Turnaround," Boston Globe, 19 Sept. 1997, at D13...

And Dictionary.com, as quoted above, says both are acceptable.

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

Perfect or pluperfect?

[530nm330hz.livejournal.com]

... she's getting a kind of name for herself, and the name ain't his

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

Totally "he'll furnish the spot". Hence, I preference-voted against "his firm is the spot". :-)

[moonpuppy61.livejournal.com]

I went by what I would prefer to say. I had no rule to guide me beyond my ear.

[42itous.livejournal.com]

I also always thought it was "furnish."

[thespisgeoff.livejournal.com]

I'm in the "I'd drop the 'had'" camp.

I'm also of the opinion that Guys and Dolls peaks, musically, with "Fugue for Tinhorns," and then just goes downhill from there until "Sit Down (You're Rockin' the Boat)"

"Follow the Fold" is an earworm of the worst type.

[batyatoon]

It's "proved" or "had proven", and the question is whether the sentence is describing something in the past or something in the further past.

Also, I own the book of the play and it's "he'll furnish the spot". But if I were a bell I would totally go ding dong ding dong ding.

[tygerseye.livejournal.com]

He'll furnish the spot. Promise. Did the show twice with the original libretto. ;-)

[arfur]

what is this runyonland of which you tag?

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Damon Runyon was the author of the short stories on which "Guys and Dolls" was based. And "Runyonland" is the name of one of the pieces of music in "Guys and Dolls."

[half-double.livejournal.com]

If I had a hammer, Nomi. If I had a hammer.